46 | Lisa
“I felt like I was so alone. That was the most prominent feeling was just being completely alone... And I just remember being on that hospital bathroom floor and I was just the most alone person on the planet, it felt like. And that was the trauma that just stayed with me. And I think because there was just no one that I could call or turn to... I felt so disconnected from community and also from myself. That loneliness and isolation was just a massive part of the whole story.”
Trauma isn’t always about what happened - sometimes it’s about what didn’t.
Lisa already felt anxious and lonely navigating pregnancy, birth, and postpartum in a new country without the safety net of family or maternity care in her mother tongue. But this sense of isolation was only compounded by the absence of safety, connection, and support when Lisa’s newborn was rushed away to the special care nursery without explanation, leaving her alone for hours.
With her concerns about her baby’s reflux dismissed for weeks, access to a mother’s group denied because she was a second-time mum, and her mental health symptoms overlooked because she didn’t ‘look’ depressed - no matter where she turned, Lisa never felt seen, heard, or held.
In fact, depression, PTSD, insomnia, and rage consumed her life for several years until she found the right psychologist who finally made her feel seen, heard, and held.
Lisa’s story emphatically stresses the importance of connection and being held during the perinatal period. Now, through her work, she helps create the very community she needed, and offers a message of hope for others walking the same path.
In this episode, we explore:
the added layers of isolation as an immigrant
the vital role of compassion and humanity in maternity care
the path to recovery with IFS, EMDR, neurofeedback, meditation, and Maternal Journal
the reminder that the bond with our baby is capable of repair
the need to advocate - always - for ourselves and for our children
Tune in to Lisa’s breath-taking story of trauma, healing, and reclaiming her power.
“I'm really happy to be here because I follow you and the stories you're sharing, and I think they're so important. And I feel very humbled to be here and to be allowed to share my story as well.”
“I'm an immigrant. I'm an immigrant mother. I grew up in Germany and moved here when my first daughter was 10 months old.”
“I met my husband when we were both travelling in Italy, and he is from Australia. And it was pretty clear from the start that we wanted to live in Australia, or he definitely wanted to live in Australia, and I was really keen to go on that adventure. And yeah, so we moved here, but it was all... When we decided to stay together, to marry, and to have children and all that, that was all really quick because of the great distance between countries and where we wanted to live our lives and that.”
“So we married after one year. We have been together for one year, and we married one year later, and I was already pregnant for five months with my first daughter. And I handed in my a bachelor thesis with a big tummy. And I was like, ‘oh, wow, that feels weird.’ I always thought I would have a career, but now I'm moving to Australia and I'm going to be a mum. And that was really scary and exciting.”
“And then when we lived here, it was actually really difficult at the start to find friends, to find a good support network, and just to slot in, to find work and all those things. And then we had a second child, another daughter, three years later. Yeah, and that was really difficult.”
“It was really important to me to have my first daughter in Germany because I wanted to have a familiar environment. I wanted to have my mum, I wanted to have my friends, I wanted to have German-speaking doctors in my mother tongue and all that stuff that felt familiar and safe. And I'm so glad that I did because that was really important.”
“But then here, obviously, there was just that element of still being foreign, often not being able to just know the lay of the land. You know so much more because you grew up here and you just know how things work, and the Medicare system and everything was just so new to me. And I guess that just adds to a level of anxiety. So I was already a bit nervous with the second pregnancy.”
“I just remember being on that hospital bathroom floor and I was just the most alone person on the planet, it felt like. And that was the trauma that just stayed with me. And I think because there was just no one that I could call or turn to...”
“What came to mind was just that, I guess, that moment of trauma that happened after the birth of my second daughter, where I felt like I was so alone. That was the most prominent feeling was just being completely alone.”
“It felt like there was no one I could call because my older daughter was unwell at the time, so she wasn't allowed to visit for the first few days. So my husband was looking after her, and I couldn't reach him because he had been up, you know how it goes, it took several nights and days to actually birth this child. So he was exhausted and he was sleeping at home.”
“And I just remember being on that hospital bathroom floor and I was just the most alone person on the planet, it felt like. And that was the trauma that just stayed with me. And I think because there was just no one that I could call or turn to.”
“It was beautiful that my mother-in-law, as soon as I could reach her in the early hours of the morning, she came straight away. She was there instantly, which is really beautiful and so important to have that.”
“But yeah, so that was that moment.”
“And then after that, it was just the whole first few years with my second child that I felt so disconnected from community and also from myself that loneliness and isolation was just a massive part of the whole story.”
“I didn’t understand what that meant, and I didn’t understand what they were doing with her, and no one really explained anything to me. I just remember being basically pushed aside so they could look after her, and then they rushed her to the special care unit and left me there...”
“The birth itself was actually fine. I wanted to have a water birth, and I was happy to make that happen.”
“I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes, and the first appointment that I did have about that, they told me that I would be induced at 38 weeks and that I wouldn't have a water birth, and then I said ‘no’ to that. That felt really scary. But I just thought, ‘no, you can't decide that for me. You don't even know if there's an impact of the gestational diabetes or not.’”
“I just didn't believe that I had it. I was just like, ‘I don't know, your numbers are wrong, or I don't know what's going on, but I'm certain I don't have it. I move, I exercise, I live healthily. There's no reason why I should have it.’ And I did have it, and it did affect my baby, so I was wrong about that.”
“But yeah, it was just really stressful to just have all these additional appointments during pregnancy, to get the toddler in the car and find a park and worry about food constantly, the entire time. I found that really annoying. I couldn't really enjoy my pregnancy because until that point, it was actually really fine.”
“So I did have that water birth that I really wanted, and that was really nice. Everything was fine then. And it was just a few hours afterwards when already everyone had left and gone home, and I was trying to sleep, and I hadn't slept for three nights. So I was really desperate for some rest. And it's just so difficult to sleep in the hospital. It's just so loud, and they just keep coming in and doing stuff.”
“I was really annoyed at that point when the nurse came in and checked my daughter, and I'm just like, ‘Oh, just leave us alone.’ And she was actually not fine. She really needed medical attention. And so they then turned the light on and they brought us in a different room, and they called the paediatrician, and there was just all this stuff happening.”
“I was like, ‘Oh, why can't they leave us alone?’ I was just in complete… I was just so exhausted. I was so exhausted from the whole lead up to it because every time we came to the hospital, my contractions stopped because I actually had this fear. I didn't feel safe at the hospital, so my body just went, ‘No, not doing it here.’ So we had to go a few times. So it just took so long and I was just so tired.”
“So when all this happened, and they examined her, and she was hypoglycemic, I didn't understand what that meant, and I didn't understand what they were doing with her, and no one really explained anything to me. I just remember being basically pushed aside so they could look after her, and then they rushed her to the special care unit and left me there.”
“I remember going to the toilet, to the bathroom, and this huge blood clot fell out of me when I got up from the toilet. I just remember there was blood everywhere on the floor, and I had to clean it up, and I knelt down, and I just sobbed. I cried so much. My whole body was shaking. I remember snot, tears everywhere, blood everywhere. I couldn’t see through my tears...”
“I just didn't understand why they took her away and what happened. So I was just really trying to piece it all together. You can't think straight when you're tired.”
“Then I remember going to the toilet, to the bathroom, and this huge blood clot fell out of me when I got up from the toilet. I just remember there was blood everywhere on the floor, and I had to clean it up, and I knelt down, and I just sobbed.”
“I cried so much. My whole body was shaking. I remember snot, tears everywhere, blood everywhere. I couldn't see through my tears, and I tried to clean it up.”
“And that's that moment that I was talking about before.”
“I guess it's just that shock. You don't expect it. You just go to the bathroom like you normally would. But after birth, in this state, I was in, I just wasn't coping. I was really not coping at all.”
“And it was just so awful because I had no idea what was happening. No one explained anything. The baby was gone.”
“Then I just couldn't stop crying. I couldn't stop crying until the morning when they finally got me to come down to the special care nursery to see her.”
“There was one nurse that came who was trying to put me on an IV fluid, and I was crying so much because I couldn't hold still. And I said ‘they took my baby’, and she just then answered, ‘I can call social services for you’. Because she obviously didn't know what I meant by that or what happened or why my baby was not with me. And so that was all I got, which is just, that was not helpful.”
‘And I wish they had just maybe briefed the nurse before she came to me, but maybe they didn't even know that I was so distressed. I don't know. But yeah, that was just... Yeah, I just felt really alone. I just felt so alone.”
“And I just feel for her. I because that was really hard.”
“I’m trying to be a good girl. I’m trying to be a good mum. So I’m doing all the things that I’m told, but I’m not actually listening to myself... There was just all that shame and guilt and blame on me. No matter where I turned, it was just, ‘You are doing this and it’s your fault.’”
“There was just this uncertainty if I was able to stay at the hospital or not because they didn't have enough rooms for the parents that wanted to be with their children in special care.”
“So when they proposed to us that we would have to go home and leave her there, there was just no way I was going to leave. I saw myself camping out in the hallway. I was like, ‘I'm not leaving my baby here. This is not happening. I'm not going home without my baby. This is not the plan. And you are not keeping her here without me being with her.’”
“That was just really scary.”
“And then they did manage to find a room, and I could be there with her for a couple of days, two or three days we were there. And then we got to go home. And she was okay. She had to be fed through a tube. And then when my milk came, she was starting to get better.”
“It was fine for a few weeks. And then she had silent reflux, and that was really difficult. So she was screaming all day, every day.”
“She wasn't sleeping. I was really worried because she would sleep at night, but that was from exhaustion at that time. She just wouldn't sleep at all during the day. And I thought, ‘Oh, my goodness. She's like maybe six weeks old. This is so unusual that she just would not sleep at all during the day.’”
“So I took her to the GP a few times, and they didn't take me seriously. They said, ‘well, you're training her to scream because you keep picking her up. You have to let her cry out.’ So you think that's an ancient thing, but no, they actually told me that. And because I was a very good girl that was listening to the medical advice, I did it.”
“It was really painful to do emotionally. I'm sure it was way more painful for her because she was actually in physical pain, and that's why she was screaming and crying. And yeah, it was just horrible for our whole family. And we tried to stick with it and train her to sleep, but she didn't.”
“And then she would only sleep on her tummy. And the maternal health nurse said not to put her on her tummy because of SIDS. I didn't do that because I wanted to be a good mum and always listened.”
“When I told the maternal health nurse that she slept better on her tummy, she said, ‘How would you feel with a dead baby just because you wanted to have a few more minutes of rest?’”
“There was just all that shame and guilt and blame on me. No matter where I turned, it was just, ‘You are doing this and it's your fault.’”
“And just looking back, I get angry now because I think that was just not helpful at all.”
“Also, I did ask the maternal health nurse to join a mother's group because I felt really lonely, and they said ‘no’ because it was my second child, so I wasn't entitled to join.”
“Maybe if I had been more persistent, if I had been more honest and open about how I was feeling. Maybe she would have made it happen, but I just didn't feel that confident at that time to say those things.”
“It's just so unfair because how is that helpful for that mother in that situation?”
“I went back to the GP and I said, ‘Look, there's all these signs. I Googled it’ and I'm sure he didn't like hearing it, ‘but she's behaving and acting this way, and I can't feed her. She just goes on my boob, off, on, off, on, off. It takes me an hour to feed her. It's really stressful for both of us.’”
“And then he said, ‘Oh, she would sleep better on her tummy if she had that.’ I said, ‘Well, she does, but obviously, I'm not allowed to do that.’ And then he prescribed her something, and it helped. It neutralised the stomach acid - what a relief! She started sleeping better and feeding better.”
“But that was... How long was that? I'm sure it was a month or so, four weeks or so of hell for our whole family, and just this constant stress and trying to figure it out.”
“In my mind, that's the conditioning… I'm trying to be a good girl. I'm trying to be a good mum. So I'm doing all the things that I'm told, but I'm not actually listening to myself, my own authority, and I'm not standing firmly in that truth. And that's the learning I'm taking out of that, right? So that's really important to me because that is what the meaning making and the learning from these sad and challenging and hard experiences. And that's what I've taken from it. It's just like: you need to be you and you need to speak your truth, and you need to stand up for yourself. And other people don't know better than you because when you are talking about you and your child, you are the expert.”
“I remember the day that I was just screaming because I didn’t know what to do anymore. I was just completely and utterly helpless and out of my depth...”
“What happened then was I experienced rage, moments of where I literally just... I said the most awful things to my baby because that was so traumatic.”
“I was just experiencing this distressed baby. And you know when a baby screams and they need to be comforted, it goes through you.”
“For other people who are not parents or mothers, it might just be a sound, but for us, it is visceral. It's not just a sound. It goes through and through, right? And just to have that constantly.”
“And I was saying things to myself: How is this possible that I can't calm my own baby? I've already had a baby. I know how to do this. I must be a terrible mother. I must not be cut out for this. I'm doing something wrong.”
“Then there was all this internalised blame and shame and the guilt for not being able to calm her, for not being a good enough mother to make her stop screaming.”
“Because I was also experiencing PTSD symptoms - but I didn't know that - everything was just even more difficult for my nervous system to cope. And I also didn't get that help.”
“I remember my neighbour came over once for a cuppa, and I think she actually just wanted to check if I was okay because she heard me screaming. That one day where I was just... I remember the day that I was just screaming because I didn't know what to do anymore. I was just completely and utterly helpless and out of my depth and so overwhelmed with the situation.”
“When he said that to me in that moment, I completely lost trust in my body and myself, and I didn’t rebuild that for a long time...”
When it came to completing the any mental health screening questionnaires, Lisa found it hard to be honest. “I'm not going to tell anyone how much I'm struggling, especially not this lady who is telling me that I'm killing my baby! I'm already doing everything wrong in her eyes. So I'm not going to give her more ammunition to then and go ahead and take my baby away. And that was what I was thinking.”
“I mean, obviously, I know that is not true now, but that's where my head was at the time.”
“And I think now, looking back, that is so understandable that I didn't feel safe to confide in her and just actually say, ‘You know what? I'm finding this really, really hard, and I'm crying a lot, and I'm not myself, and I don't know how to calm my baby, and this is really hard, and I'm struggling.’”
“There was nowhere I could go and say that.”
“I did go to my GP. I did tell him that I was thinking that I might have postnatal depression, and then he looked me up and down and he said, ‘You don't. You would look very different if you did.’”
“I have to laugh at that because now after everything I've learned, mums, and especially depressed mums, are so good at appearing put together. And that for a GP to be so uneducated, to have absolutely no idea that depression doesn't look a certain way.”
“He probably expected me to be, I don't know, probably in stained track pants and a messy bun and dark rings under my eyes, and I didn't have that. So in his eyes, I wasn't depressed. And I took that answer, right? So when he said ‘no,’ I was like, ‘Okay, I don't have it then.’”
“But I would love to think now that if a mum went to their GP and they said, ‘I'm wondering if I might have postnatal depression’ they would get really, really curious and ask, ‘What makes you think that?’”
“It just blows my mind that he didn't say that.”
“Just to complete the whole story of let downs… it actually started in pregnancy before I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. I think I was maybe, I don't know, under 20 weeks, but I was definitely showing.”
“It was a different GP, I changed when they weren't good. I went through a lot of GPs. Anyway, this one said to me, ‘How many weeks are you?’ Then I doubted myself and looked at my app and I told him again, and he said, ‘No, there's no way, that baby would have stopped growing weeks ago. This is your second pregnancy. You should be way bigger.’”
“So he's basically telling me my baby died, which she didn't. She's happy and healthy and at school right now. And yeah, that was just awful because I think that's where it started, actually.”
“I've been reflecting, obviously, a lot on the whole story. And I think that when he said that to me in that moment, I completely lost trust in my body and myself, and I didn't rebuild that for a long time.”
“You have to be prepared to talk about the really uncomfortable stuff. And if you don’t get the impression that the person across from you is going to be able to hold that in a way that feels safe for you, then that’s probably not a good match...”
“So I went through a few more GPs over the years, and I was sent to a psychologist and went there for six sessions, and it was terrible.”
“And I'm telling you this before we get to the good part. Because I think it's actually really important if mums are listening to this and they are thinking about getting help and they might want to see a psychologist or a counsellor. And what I've learned from this negative experience was that you need to feel, how do you know if it's a good match? How do you know if this is going to be helpful to you? You need to be able to really trust them. If they can create an environment where you feel like they're really listening, and they get you, and they're invested in your wellbeing, genuinely care, then that's a good match.”
“And because I had no idea what to expect going into the therapy, I was really nervous. I was like, ‘Oh, are they going to think I'm crazy? I really have to watch what I'm saying. I need to come across really clever and smart and educated so they don't think...’ I don't know. I was just really trying to impress my psychologist so they wouldn't think I'm crazy. That's also not a good attitude to go into therapy with.”
“But I just wanted to say that so it's out there. And if anyone's listening, they know that's not going to help you. You have to be prepared to talk about the really uncomfortable stuff. And if you don't get the impression that the person across from you is going to be able to hold that in a way that feels safe for you, then that's probably not a good match.”
“So when I did find a good psychologist, it was so good. It was so good.”
“And by then, many years had passed, like six years or so had passed, and I had read a lot of books about trauma and self-help books and about the book from the holistic psychologist and all the things, trying to understand myself, trying to find out what was going on.”
“I had started meditating because I had insomnia from this whole ordeal. So someone said to me, ‘You should start meditating.’ That was probably in the first or second year after birth. And that was so good because then I started to getting to know myself more and started to listen to my heart and what I really like to do and what my needs were and how I could meet them. And it was a really gentle way of slowly coming closer to healing and growing into myself or softening back into who I really was.”
“Then I got really curious about all this psychology stuff, and I started reading all these books, and that's where I found neurofeedback and EMDR, and I thought, ‘this is great. That sounds something I want to try out.’ I also found IFS, which is Internal Family Systems therapy, and I absolutely love it. It has helped so much in my healing, and it's become a lifestyle for me to use that language and talk about parts of me rather than ‘I'm anxious,’ I can say ‘a part of me feels anxious’ and so on.”
“So that's how I tried to find a therapist because I found these modalities that really resonated that I thought could help me with the symptoms I was experiencing. And then I found this therapist here locally in Geelong, and we just had a really good rapport.”
“And I was able to challenge him. And the first time I did it, I was so scared. I was like, ‘Oh, what's he going to say now?’ But it was so necessary for me to... He was saying all the right things. And then I said to him, ‘I feel like you're just saying that because it's your job to be nice to me.’ Then he was so good at holding that and just explaining to me why he was saying the things and what his beliefs are and his values are and so on. I'm like, ‘Oh, wow. He could really turn that around,’ and it just created so much more trust in our relationship.”
“I remember driving away from that session on a cloud. I was just so light. I remember being in the car and stopping at the traffic light. I was like, ‘Oh, is that how other people feel? I feel like I can breathe again...’”
“He wasn't even trained in IFS, and I just wanted him to do it anyway. He was open to it. He said, ‘I'm completely honest with you. I have no training in it, but if that feels like it's helping, then we can go with it.’”
“And so we did EMDR and IFS at the same time, and it was just the best thing for me. That's what healed the PTSD symptoms and the incredible shame and guilt that I was carrying around with me for years that made me miserable.”
“There was this one session that was just so impactful where we sat and there was this part of me that was shaming me and guilting me all the time. I could connect to the part and I asked it if it could stop doing it. The part was saying, ‘No, there's no way.’ I'm like, ‘Oh, okay, why?’ That part was just ‘because I'm making you a better mum. If I wouldn't tell you how you're screwing everything up and all the things that you're doing wrong and how you have to be better, then you wouldn't be as a good mum as you are now.’ And that was not true.”
“And obviously, to get that part to trust me and create that self-trust that I could be a beautiful mum, maybe even a better mum, a more present mum, a more loving mum, if it would just let me be and stop guilting me and shaming me. So we used EMDR with that part, and it could really take that message that I wasn't able to convey without EMDR, which to me, it was magic.”
“I remember driving away from that session on a cloud. I was just so light. I remember being in the car and stopping at the traffic light. I was like, ‘Oh, is that how other people feel? I feel like I can breathe again.’ I'm just like, ‘I'm actually really happy right now.’ That was so good.”
“If that feels true to you and you can feel it in your heart and it resonates within you, then that is what it is, and that's what happened.”
“I just know how it felt in my body, and it was scary to me...”
Because Lisa lived with depression and PTSD for so long, she understandably struggled to articulate the symptoms she experienced. “That's such an important question to ask, and it's so difficult to answer that because after such a long time, you might think that it's part of your personality. It's just difficult to then find out and detangle what are symptoms and what is me.”
“I guess the shame and guilt was definitely part of the whole depression and PTSD symptoms.”
“I also had really strong migraines, so strong that one migraine sent me to hospital because my whole right side of my face was numb. And they were so strong that I couldn't even take care of the kids. Sometimes they had to eat cereal for breakfast, lunch, and dinner because I just couldn't get up. So physical symptoms like that.”
“But also that rage and the anger that I spoke about briefly before. And I feel like that is something that we don't talk about much because there's so much shame attached to it. And I still feel it, I have to say. I'm not going to share all the things I did and said because I'm still feeling really shit about that. Because in the end, I didn't have any control. That's the scary part.”
“I feel like that was definitely a symptom of the depression, was my anger, and that the anger was at times so strong that I really felt like I couldn't control it. Thankfully, it didn't do anything physical to the girls, but I just know how it felt in my body, and it was scary to me.”
“Then it was just the symptoms. The way I was feeling, the way I was behaving, the physical symptoms that were coming up. So that made me more curious about what was going on.”
“And then that very last psychologist that I talked about that I met maybe three, four years ago, he retrospectively diagnosed me and said, ‘I think you did have postnatal depression back then, and you have been suffering from PTSD symptoms from what happened in the hospital. And all of that combined has led you here today.’”
“I shouldn't laugh, really. I'm just doing that because I'm uncomfortable. But it's really like, what the!? How is that possible that in this country, a pretty switched-on woman, keeps going to all these health professionals and no one picks up on it? That just blows my mind.”
“There was two psychologists, so the first one didn't even think about that. We didn't even get there. I went there because of my insomnia, and by the last session, she didn't even ask me how I was sleeping. So there's just all this bad luck! I just have to shake my head and go, Wow, that is just really unlucky!”
“And I guess that's why I'm talking with you, because I want more people to know. And there needs to be more awareness. People need to be able to look at themselves and maybe go, ‘Here are the signs. I should go and ask for support,’ but then keep going if you don't get it.”
“I wish I had been more persistent or put my foot down and said, ‘No, not good enough!’”
“I guess maybe I can look at it as a little bit of a training camp because my daughter is going through an ADHD and autism assessment. I get to advocate for her now, and I've become really good at not putting up with bullshit.”
“They saw that my brain waves - because trauma can alter that, right? - so when I was closing my eyes, it was exactly the same as when I had my eyes open...”
“I read about [neurofeedback] in ‘The Body Keeps the Score’ from Bessel van der Kolk, and then I did a little bit of Googling, and I found out what it was, and I thought, ‘Oh, I'm just going to give it a go.’”
“What they do is they measure your brain waves and stick some things on your head. I don't know what they are, but they... I'm really missing the word! I don't know. But I'm sure everyone has a picture in their head - and there’s cables attached to it. And they put them on your head and then measure certain brain waves to determine where what is happening, because obviously your brain sends out different waves when you're sleeping or when you are closing your eyes or when your eyes are open and so on.”
“And from my understanding, when they did that, they saw that my brain waves - because trauma can alter that, right? - so when I was closing my eyes, it was exactly the same as when I had my eyes open.”
“So I'm like, ‘Well, that makes sense because I don't sleep.’ My brain actually doesn't register when I close my eyes.”
“And so that was to help my brain learn again with reward. So you're just watching something and your brain is being rewarded for sending out the better brain waves, the more supportive ones, to help you calm your brain, basically.”
“It would have probably done something, but I can't say that it healed it because I guess to an extent, I'm still experiencing anxiety every now and then. And when I have that, then I don't sleep well. But I am okay with that because I know how I can support myself through those times and what I need.”
“But I don't know if the neurofeedback was actually that helpful because I can't quantify it, because we did several things at the same time, so I can't single that one out.”
“We are all made to heal, and we healed that relationship... I just feel it in my heart. We are so attuned, and it’s so cool that there’s so much trust now.”
“I just keep learning so much about myself, and I am enjoying it so much now. So there's always another layer you can heal. There's always more depth and more growth.”
“It is a bit of a tragic story there. It's actually sad what happened, not just because of me, but what I'm most sad about is that relationship with my daughter that really suffered that bond, as you can imagine, was ruptured.”
“And kids are so good at showing that. She never came to me. She was always a daddy's girl, and very rarely - if we were just out and about - she would come to me and sit on my lap. And then it was like a bird landed on me. I was like, ‘take a photo, quick!’ That's actually really sad. And it was like that for a long time.”
“But now I'm so proud and so happy because I worked really hard on creating a strong bond with her. We have got such a good relationship. I feel so close to her, and I can tell that she feels really close to me as well, and that she feels really, really safe.”
“I think this is so important, actually, because there's so much out there about attachment and so much pressure on the mum because ‘you cannot fuck this up. This is your job. You need to create a secure attachment. If you haven't done that because you were unwell, well, you've failed.’ - I find that so unhelpful, that whole story, because yes, that was hard, and yes, that was sad for both of us. But we did repair it, because you can rewire your brain and you can heal.”
“We are all made to heal, and we healed that relationship.”
“There is so much strong, beautiful love between my daughter and me that wasn’t there before because it wasn't able to grow, but we were able to make that happen. So I really want to make that point because I don't want anyone to think, ‘Well, I've been depressed in the first 12 months of my child's life. Now, their attachment style is forever ruined.’ No, no, no!”
“I think it just gives a lot of hope because that story that ‘if you haven't been present or if you haven't been showing up like we all want to show up, then your relationship the attachment style or whatever it is, is going to be ruined forever’ - that's not true, because there is something that is called neuroplasticity, and that's our brains being able to heal and create new information.”
“And so on that level, that makes sense. But I just feel it in my heart. We are so attuned, and it's so cool that there's so much trust now.”
“And what I have learned is the more space we give something that we feel uncomfortable with, the more capacity we develop to be with that, the more it will soften...”
“I was talking earlier a little bit about that part of me that was using shame and guilt to make me a better mum. When I was working on all of this, and I did so much work on my own, but it was so great to have my psychologist there to hold space for me when I needed that extra level of space holding, that support. But yeah, most of it I did myself, and I did it by using Internal Family Systems therapy, so finding my parts and connecting with them.”
“And I use journaling to help me keep track, so writing, but also drawing my parts. So this is how it started.”
“So I started drawing my parts, and then I came across Maternal Journal, and then I thought that was just the best concept I've ever heard - which if you haven't heard of it, is mums coming together and there's lots of art supplies on the table. You could make a collage, a poem, or just prose writing or drawing or painting. There's a journal prompt, and you then get to chat about what you're doing or what you're experiencing and what you're working on in your project, or you can just exchange your experiences in a safe space with other mums.”
“I started running these sessions here locally, and it's just so beautiful to witness mothers come together in such a beautiful, genuine, truthful way to share what is going on for them.”
“For me, I think I always loved being creative. As a child, I would just sit for hours and hours and just draw and listen to music. To reconnect with that part of me and that passion of me through my healing, it just has brought this whole new world. So much cool stuff that came out of it.”
“My girls actually really love going through my journals. They don't read it, but they just love of looking at the pictures and flicking through it, which is really nice. It's a great way of connecting as well, because sometimes maybe there's a picture that's a little bit scary or someone's crying or hiding or things like that. Then we get to talk about feelings and the body and all those really cool things.”
“It's really nice to share that with them.”
“Anyone can do it, actually. Maternal Journal is a global movement. If anyone in Sydney feels called to this and they think, ‘Oh, that sounds amazing,’ then you can just find their website. They have so much free stuff on there, so many free resources. If you want to create If you're on group, you can absolutely do that.”
“During the circles for mums, I often use things from Maternal Journal, but what I do there mainly is actually using IFS meditation. We're not doing the full on deep dive, but we just connect our parts, see what's there. If it's a physical sensation, an emotion, or a thought that needs our attention, we just really take time to connect to that and then journal about it or in a creative way, express that.”
“I'm running a session in March about anger and motherhood because it definitely fascinates me. I think that we tend to push that away and don't want to talk about it, don't want it to be there, just want it to go away.”
“And what I have learned is the more space we give something that we feel uncomfortable with, the more capacity we develop to be with that, the more it will soften.”
“So that's what we're doing at the circles.”
“That would have just made all the difference. If I had a place where I could go, a space where I could go with everything that I was feeling during that time and be met with someone actually listening, someone saying, ‘me too’, or ‘I get that, you're not going crazy, you're not losing your mind, that makes so much sense.’ And a group, maybe even, because in a group, then you have so many people who know other people who know a good psychologist or who know some resources where you can go.”
“Just being in such an isolated situation, I think that would have just made all the difference to me. I know I would have walked away from a group like that thinking, ‘Oh, I'm not alone’ - that relief that you feel when you really connect with someone.”
“Because you deserve to enjoy your life. And if you’re not enjoying it, then just know you can do something about it...”
“I guess the advice I would give myself is trust your gut. If you feel like something's not right, it doesn't matter if it's with your baby or with yourself. If something's feeling off, just really trust yourself and just keep going until you get the right person in front of you who actually hears you.”
“I wish I had talked more about self-love, but it's just become such a natural thing to me now that it doesn't even stand out that much. But honestly, that is the absolute centre of it all.”
“Because you could have just probably given up at some point. If you just kept going to all these different people and they all say ‘no’ or don't help or whatever, why didn't I give up? Why didn't I just accept that that was my life now and this is how my life feels now? Why didn't I just accept it and just left it there?”
“Because I believe my life, I deserve my life to feel better. I deserve that my life feels good to me, and it's not feeling good to me right now. And that's why I kept going, because I'm going to find the answers here, and I'm going to keep digging until my life feels good again.”
“And under all of that is self-love, because I love myself so much that I think I deserve that.”
“And you deserve to enjoy your life. And if you're not enjoying it, then just know you can do something about it.”
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Episode Sponsor
This episode of Perinatal Stories Australia is proudly sponsored by Mums Matter Psychology—because your mental health matters.
Frances and her expert team of psychologists, social workers, and occupational therapists are passionate about providing affordable, high-quality mental health care for pregnant women and parents with children up to 4 years old.
Through Medicare bulk-billed therapy sessions—up to 20 at no cost to you—they make support accessible to everyone. If you’re in Victoria, visit one of their welcoming clinic locations. Outside Victoria? Their nationwide Telehealth services bring care to your fingertips.
Mums Matter Psychology also offers a range of online therapy groups and webinars, providing additional ways to access support and connect with others on a similar journey.
Ready to take the next step? Visit mumsmatterpsychology.com to learn more and book your appointment today.
